I'm trying to scope out what frequencies different common analog signals are. The DPScope design specs provides a list of common lower (sub 1 MHz) frequencies (copied below).
- audio (20 kHz)
- infrared remote control signals (38 kHz)
- ultrasound (200 kHz)
- servo signals (a few kHz)
- bio signals, medical instruments (< 100 Hz)
- I2C (1 MHz)
- RS-232 (115 kHz)
- one-wire
- SPI (as long as <= 1 MHz)
However, some of those listed are used for transferring digital data (for example, RS-232).
Now my questions:
Under what situations would it be necessary to have a bandwidth capable of measuring these digital lines as analog signals?
What important analog signals (or digital signals that should be tested as an analog signal) have higher frequencies than those listed above?
Best Answer
I assume "as an analog signal" means on an oscilloscope as opposed to a logic analyser.
For a digital signal, it is important to be able to check the signal integrity and see whether it is subject to problems such as ringing, crosstalk, reflections, jitter, attenuation, etc.
This can only be done with a scope with a bandwidth > the frequencies present in the signal - remember with a digital signal there are frequencies much higher than the fundamental present, how high is dictated by the rise time of the signal. For a 1MHz digital signal you would generally want at least a 5MHz bandwidth, preferably much higher.
For debugging a typical small microcontroller (e.g. PIC, Atmel AVR, Arduino, etc) a scope bandwidth of at least 50MHz is preferable. This should be capable of handling just about all situations you might encounter.
There are many signals above 1MHz that need checking, most microcontroller clock signals are > 1MHz, SPI is often > 1MHz, USB, etc. FPGA designs may run at 100s of MHz, high speed ADCs and DACs, etc.
On a logic analyser all you can see is whether it is above a certain level or below a certain level (like a 1-bit scope) so while useful in other ways they are not suitable for checking signal integrity.
The image below (taken on an MSO - Mixed Signal Oscillscope, a combination of a scope and logic analyser) is a good example of crosstalk causing problems and why a scope is needed to see what's really happening. Notice the waveforms are quite a way from the idea of a "perfect" digital signal:
For the leftmost red arrow the second trace down is the transmitting trace, and the top trace down is the "victim" (receiving trace) and the right hand pulse they are reversed. We can see on the rise of the "transmitting" signal it causes a spike in the receiving trace, resulting in a unwanted glitch on the logic display, which is what the digital receiver would "see".
In this image at the top we can see signal degradation caused by an incorrectly terminated trace, causing reflections. At the bottom we can see the same signal after it has been correctly terminated:
On the logic analyser, both signals may work, but there is no way of knowing how marginal the first signal is without checking with a scope. The incorrectly terminated trace may only cause problems intermittently, so it's important to be able to check it's integrity.
Looking at your link to the DPScope design, I see it's dsPIC based. It won't be comparable to anything you can buy (you can get a 20MHz analogue scope for << £50 nowadays, and a 5-10MHz DSO for similar)
However, it would be a great project for educational purposes, and you will get something perfectly useable for low frequency (e.g. audio, UART, PWM) purposes. Plus you'll have fun building it. If your thinking of doing so, I'd say go for it, just don't expect it to take care of all your debugging needs. If your budget is limited, get a cheap analogue scope - you will generally get the highest bandwidth for your money.
Remember the chicken and egg problem - you need a scope in order to build and test a scope ;-)