Electronic – Positive and negative feedback in opamp in same circuit

Like you said, the fact that the two opamp inputs will be nearly equal is a simplification and depends on parameters often not explicitly stated. This is a good question in that it is essential to know the limits of any shortcuts or rules of thumb you use.

As clabacchio already said, one place the assumption are violated is if the opamp output is clipped, or would need to exceed its available range to make the desired signal. Other reasons that make the assumption invalid include:

1. The feedback isn't negative. This may sound stupid, but I've actually shown someone a simple opamp hysteresis circuit in a interview and asked them to draw a plot of output voltage as a function of input voltage. More than one candidate started off saying the opamp will try to keep its two inputs the same, and then dug himself into a deeper hole from there. Needless to say, those were short interviews.

2. The gain isn't sufficient. Note that the rule of keeping the inputs equal assumes infinite gain. Likewise the rule that Gain = -Rf / Rin assumes infinite gain. Normally opamp open loop gains are around 100k or more and we don't ask for more than 100 or maybe 1000 at most from a single stage, so it would seem this is a small issue.

   However, that forgets about the effect of frequency on gain. A 1 MHz opamp may be specified for 100k open loop voltage gain at DC, but if you use it for audio and want to pass 20 kHz, then you only have a open loop gain of 50 worst case. If you set the feedback resistors for a gain of 25, that only leaves 2x headroom at the high end, which will seriously reduce closed loop gain at high frequencies.

3. Slew rate limitation. Even with enough gain and proper feedback, the opamp can only change its output so fast. That is what the slew rate spec is for. The gain*bandwidth product is for small signals. Large amplitude signals may run into slew rate issues. For most opamps, the full swing output signal is rather lower frequency that what the gain*bandwidth product implied.

To gain insight into what is happening, replace the op-amp with an ideal voltage amplifier model (we assume the gain \$A \rightarrow \infty\$):

^{simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab}

Now it's easy to see two important points

• \$R\$ can only change the current through the 5V source - it has no other effect
• there is no path for output current thus the output current is zero.

Thus, in this odd circuit, the output voltage adjusts to be 5V less than the voltage applied to the non-inverting terminal which, in this case, implies

$$V_O = -1.7\mathrm V$$

and the resistor is irrelevent to this result.

(Added to address edited and expanded question)

As I understand it voltage is simply current pressure measured with respect to some reference point (usually ground). In this case, we have Iin producing Vin "pressure"

I'm not sure what you mean by the "current pressure" but, in this circuit, it is commonly understood that the voltage \$V_{in}\$ is an independent variable - a given - which means that \$V_{in}\$ isn't 'produced' by \$I_{in}\$ but, rather, produced externally to the circuit.

To make this clear, one can explicitly add the external source to the circuit, e.g.,

^{simulate this circuit}

Now it's clear that \$I_{in}\$ depends on \$V_{in}\$ but \$V_{in}\$ is fixed by the voltage source, i.e., changing the value of \$R_{in}\$ will change the value of \$I_{in}\$ but not the value of \$V_{in}\$.

Intuitively, I'm thinking that the output pin "sinks" some current to reduce the voltage at the summing point. But that sinking of current would reduce Iin (since no current flows through the inverting pin). The result would seem to be that Vin drops. But is this the case?

The voltage at the output of the ideal op-amp, if negative feedback is present, will be whatever it needs to be so that the inverting input voltage equals the non-inverting input voltage.

Now, this might mean that the output must sink current or it may mean that the output must source current.

In my opinion, the most intuitive, straightforward way to think about this is to apply voltage division.

By voltage division, the voltage at the inverting input is given by

$$V_- = V_{in}\frac{R_F}{R_{in} + R_F} + V_{out}\frac{R_{in}}{R_{in} + R_F}$$

This result is elementary and holds even if the op-amp is removed from the circuit and \$V_{out}\$ is produced by an independent voltage source.

So, at this point, we can ask the question

• What must \$V_{out}\$ be such that the inverting input voltage, \$V_-\$, equals the non-inverting input voltage, \$ V_+\$?

A little bit of quick algebra yields the answer

$$V_{out} = V_+\left(1 + \frac{R_F}{R_{in}} \right) - V_{in}\frac{R_F}{R_{in}}$$

Thus, if \$V_{out}\$ equals the above, the inverting input voltage will equal the non-inverting input voltage.

just one more thing: in the case where Vout is positive what effect does this have on Iin?

We can straightforwardly write the equation for \$I_{in}\$ as follows:

$$I_{in} = \frac{V_{in} - V_{out}}{R_{in} + R_F}$$

But, under the assumption that \$V_{out}\$ is whatever it needs to be so that the inverting input voltage equals the non-inverting input voltage, we have

$$I_{in} = \frac{V_{in} - V_+}{R_{in}}$$

Carefully note that, under the above assumption (which is the same as assuming an ideal op-amp), \$I_{in}\$ does not depend on \$V_{out}\$ period. This is a consequence of the constraint \$V_- = V_+\$.

In summary, assuming an ideal op-amp, there is no instant in which \$V_- \ne V_+\$.

For physical op-amps, we must add additional circuit elements to model the departure from non-ideal behaviour and that is beyond the scope of this answer.